Below is an anonymous response to Dena of "Going Deaf" after she expressed confusion over the growing hostility in DeafRead because of the new Deaf/deaf aggregator formed. As a late-deafened person experiencing a progressive hearing loss, Dena seems to feel pulled in two directions.
http://denareiter.blogspot.com/2008/06/where-i-am.html
"Excuse me! We are not responsible for your choices. It is you who decide, not us. Your attitude sucks. You blame on the Deaf community for making your choice, which you decide to pick Deaf village and Deaf Read. We do not want any people who demand us to be responsible for your choosing and we must behave THE WAY you want us to. It is your responsible as a human being to observe, to recognize, to work, and to accept there are some situations that are going on in the Deaf community that involves all kinds of Deaf. Kim, People who feel that they are fence sitters are the sign of helplessness. They do not learn how to embrace different main community and sub communities with different ideologies. People need to rethink how this approach this situation about finding Good solutions or too lazy find better solutions, blames others, and demand them to be responsible for your actions?"
Here, an angry vlogger protests the new DeafVillage aggregator's guideline #5, that says only captioned or transcribed vlogs will be accepted on the aggregator. He asserts that DeafVillage creators are trying to create an atmosphere of "apathy" or trying to drive the ASL Deaf away.
http://drmzz.blogspot.com/2008/06/youre-crazy.html
DeafVillage's Mike McConnell responds
http://kokonutpundits.blogspot.com/,
"Deaf Village's requirement that submission of vlogs be captioned/subtitled or included transcripts is not intended to create "apathy towards ASL" or "drive ASL vloggers away" but rather to create greater inclusiveness *FOR ALL*. Not all can sign or understand sign very well and having, especially, a subtitled video can help create a continued interest for those who want to learn sign language someday. Or cued speech. Or whatever. It's the message that people want to hear, watch or read about."
As a late-deafened person I can appreciate Dena's position. She's not deaf or hearing. Neither am I. Recently I read an article about becoming true to oneself. Sometimes we're forced into circumstances that don't fit our inner selves. I think maybe that's the case with the late-deafened. My inner self is a hearing person. That's how I was born and how I lived during my formative years. But I've been going deaf much longer than the time I spent hearing perfectly, and so over the years I have come to view the world differently-- as a deaf person.
I love ASL. But it's not my first language. I am both hearing and deaf; neither hearing nor deaf--however you want to look at it. I can hear a little and sign a little. I can't hear well or sign well. I believe when Dena said, "Please don't make me choose," she meant she's not ready to choose. Maybe she'll never be ready to choose. Why should any of us have to choose? Many of you who hear or who were born Deaf cannot possibly understand this place we're at on the fence. It's a BIG fence, like the Great Wall of China. There are lots of people walking it every day, just like me. I can't possibly understand where you are all at either. The purpose of my blog is to be there for others on the fence-- people like Dena.
I am thrilled with DeafVillage's decision to promote captioning through their new guideline #5. For once I feel included at ALL times. I wonder if you can possibly understand how very rare that is for someone like me? Probably the only other time I feel totally included is once a year at my SWC Convention for a few days, when I meet up with other late-deafened people who understand what it's like to be both hearing and deaf; neither hearing nor deaf; on the fence. The rest of the time I am outside the circle of communication, even within my own family.
I didn't understand the point of Vlogger Mike's vlog. If he isn't interested in DeafVillage, why complain about their guidelines? Very confusing, since he's perfectly capable of transcribing his vlogs. I can only conclude he doesn't give a rat's ass about people like me.
It felt strange to be lectured about embracing communities with different ideologies by the anonymous name-caller above, while at the same time that person disregarded and disrespected my personal identity and ideology.
Name-calling isn't usually an effective way to resolve problems, win people over or get them to see things your way. All in all I'd say your negative energy tends to weigh DeafRead down. It's too bad because there are really some great Deaf bloggers I enjoy.
I'm on the fence cuz that's where I am. That's just me-- in a different place from some of you. I'm happy to stay there for now, enjoying both DeafRead and DeafVillage.
Smiles,
Kim
28 comments:
That is a nice posting... giving us an idea of how a late-deafened adult, or a person with progressive hearing loss must feel.
My son has progressive hearing loss and more and more he considers himself "deaf", but he is still very aural. Right or wrong... nope, because it is his journey.
Sometimes it is better sitting on the fence, so that one could have a 360 degree view of the world, not one piece of world. ;o)
Karen Mayes wrote: Sometimes it is better sitting on the fence, so that one could have a 360 degree view of the world, not one piece of world. ;o)
This made me smile, Karen!
I don't buy into the "choosing where to belong" stuff because I believe I can go wherever I want, whenever I want. :)
Sometimes I don't understand the vloggers' sign due to the sloppinesses in the background.
The reason why I have relied on the subtitles all the time.
However, I prefer to read the blogs most of all.
For instance, Seek Geo made sure the background can be clear and clean for all of us to understand his signs and subtitles. He have done a great job.
White Ghost
See, now this is an example of a HEALTHY attitude towards being deaf. Rather than forcing others to choose sides, we should be encouraging others to develop their skills. This will, I believe, lead to the deaf community becoming even STRONGER in the long run.
Great post!
What an absolutely FANTASTIC post! It's a great example of where we should all be at this point in time (accepting, inclusive, and supporting) as a deaf culture. That is one of my pet peeves (forcing others to choose), and I just wanted to jump on here and say "You Go!" The deaf community will be much stronger in years to come with an attitude such as that!
Great post!
ThumpaFlash (on DeafRead)
Beautiful and heartfelt post, Kim. I'm liking your perspective and share your experience. I have gone a little farther, perhaps, in accepting myself as a Deaf person, but I completely understand where you are and honor your place on the fence.
I enjoy your level-headed and honest writing. Keep it up, dear one.
~ LaRonda
Kim: Please do not try to soft this idomatic so you can feel good about yourself. That's called projection. Projection takes aspects of one's internal world and projects them onto external subjects. This can be a defense mechanism where it is used to expel and externalize uncomfortable inner thoughts and feelings. Not healthy, sweetie..
Karen: Do not attempt to change the definition of on the fence. Stick to the fact, honey.
Here are the defintions of sit on the fence.
"One who is facing a choice but is 'Sit on the fence' has not decided what choice they will make.
Example: "Which school do you prefer?" Answer: "I don't know; I'm on the fence."
You are on the fence when you have not yet decided. Example: "Has he decided whether he will take the job yet?" Answer: "No, he's still on the fence."
You are on the fence until you commit yourself and make a decision."
"the idiomatic meaning of to sit on the fence is that one is not making a clear choice regarding some issue."
"Sit on the fence: not able to decide something."
"Sit on the fence: not choose either side, try to be in the middle
Ex. People don't like politicians who try to sit on the fence."
"Sit on the fence: to delay making a decision when you have to choose between two sides in an argument or a competition.
Ex. She criticized members of the committee for sitting on the fence and failing to make a useful contribution to the debate."
Anonymous... that is your definition of sitting on the fence. We all have our own perspectives of what it means...AND there is NO crime in it.
Anyway, Kim, we could view it a different way... we could call "fence" as a bridge to the worlds.
Why do all the negative people who feel compelled to insult others always need to hide behind anonymous?
Kim, you have every right to be where you are. Living in the middle of two worlds can give you a much clearer view of both of them. There are many people where you are, and you give a strong voice to them.
You don't even have to be late deafened to be on this fence. I was born profoundly deaf but raised orally and didn't start learning sign language until recently. That puts me "in between" as well.
browneyedgirl65: Exactly! People do not have to be late deafened to be on this fence. People who are on the fence, they tend to be confuses and they would think about which sides they are on. If they embrace about both of worlds, they would not sit on the fence. THey would join both of them. If you sit on the fence, you will never learn.
Dena Reiter made this statement on her blog: "Why can't we all get along, seriously?! Please don't make me choose between you all." Thats how fence sitters's attitude is. Kim is proud to call herself as a fence sitter after Dena was confused and felt like she was on the fence and Kim encouraged her to stay on the fence and is confused. That is .... I better not say it..
KL: That is so typical of you attacking everyone who disagree with you or has a strong opinion. I'm not talking to you like you are a child. I'm talking to you like you are an adult. "The hardest battle you are going to fight is the battle to be just you. - Leo Buscaglia - People like you will not allow other people to speak what is on their mind without worrying abt what other people would think. Thats why I keep myself anonymous.
Karen: Tsk Tsk Tsk... It's not my definition.. The definitions are from the googles and e dictionary websites. Pfftttt! You're funny.. LOL..
"Kim, People who feel that they are fence sitters are the sign of helplessness. They do not learn how to embrace different main community and sub communities with different ideologies. People need to rethink how this approach this situation about finding good solutions or too lazy find better solutions, blames others, demand them to be responsible for their actions and just a fence sitter."
Pay attention to this statement: "They do not learn how to embrace different main community and sub communities with different ideologies."
I know where I stand and aint a fence sitter and yet I value all different communities and subcommunities. I do not need to stop to think which world I should join when things go wrong with this world. I go whenever I go. I learn whatever I learn. It is not them where they make choice for my fate. I make my own choice for my fate. Both worlds and many worlds will always have my unconditonal love and I still know where I stand. :o)
Have a good day.. It;s beautiful outside..
The "fence" as described by Karen, et al, as opposed to the one defined by Anonymous are completely different and Anonymous should go with the one meant by the above-mentioned people and there wouldn't be this fuss!
I can see where being on the fence can be a great place in this instance because that means there's hope for all....
DT
Hi Kim,
Wow.. thanks for the update! I do NOT get it when some people said that by providing subtitles to drive the ASL Deaf away because it is just absurd. I have met a lot of wonderful deaf people who finally learned ASL after watching my videos with subtitles. For instance, one of my readers, Alex who was raised using cued speech and never learned ASL until he found my videos, because of subtitles, he insisted to keep watching and then he found ASL very fascinating so he was very motivated to learn ASL . So, like him, I also taught others ASL like Abbie and you bet I can list many names.
Right now, Jes is learning Spanish only because he really enjoy watching Spanish films with English subtitles and it motivates him to learn more about spanish language.
As for DeafVillage's guideline about "require" subtitles/transcrips, I must say I do not agree with it because it brings in a lot of negatives. Like I told Rachel on her blog, if we say, "Bring me water!" Would we actually bring a glass of water? I think not, the better way of saying is, "Would you please bring me a glass of water?" You bet, we will bring a glass of water per request with saying, "please."
They have to realize that by forcing others, it won't do any good just like if anyone forces me to do something, I couldn't do it. So, I'm hoping they'd at least encourage or to say "please". Sure, I'm all for subtitles/transcripts however it is always an optional for everyone, if someone don't like their choice, move on. Just my two cent.
The more aggregators out there, the better so that gives us better options to either use 'em all or take a pick or so whatever that makes you feel more comfortable. There are MANY aggregators out there for hearing as well.
I always like to be part of ANY communities because learning new things and meet diversity of people are the best so that's why you won't see me staying in one place.
By the way, I gotta shout out to White Ghost, thanks for nice compliment! :-)
-SG
Fence straddler's unite!! It almost felt like you were peering into my brainpan when you wrote this blog, because I feel the same way. I went deaf when I was 9, and was raised in a hearing family, in a hearing community, going to hearing schools. I was not immersed in sign until college (RIT) and that was quite a bit of culture shock!!! I too, have friends on both sides of the fence, and while my signing skills have deteriorated since college (everybody here is hearing,) I can still understand most vlogs, but not all. I actually find myself gravitating to the vlogs with captions to re-acquaint myself with ASL so that I don't forget it completely.
I love the idea of being on the fence allowing you a greater view of what's happening around you. Don't let those that hide behind 'anonymous' get to you - there are some people who simply can't accept the fact that others might think differently than they do. Not everybody's a sheep, thank goodness, and embracing the individuality while promoting total communication is what makes DV so great.I'm hoping that after the whiners have dispersed, more vloggers use captions/subtitles or transcripts because they realize that people like us USE them to help us understand the language better! There are some vlogs I simply can't understand due to their signing, my comprehension level, etc...I'd love to know what I am "missing."
Thank you all who posted comments. I'm overwhelmed. I didn't expect it.
Karen-- I never thought about having a 360 degree view on the fence. I'm not sure I can see everything, but I know my view is different from most.
Karen Putz-- That's exactly my point! We all have freedom of choice. I don't see my choice as the right choice for everyone. But it's right for me.
WG-- it's nice to know I'm not the only struggling to read signs. As a learner I get frustrated that I can't ask questions. When there's a transcript or captions. I can look to clarify if I understood correctly. When I've mentioned this in the past, a few responded that it wasn't THEIR responsibility to teach me ASL. I couldn't agree more. Still-- if I don't get what they say, then I'm not likely to watch. They've made their choice, I've made mine. :-)
Thumpaflash and Laronda-- Thanks so much for the encouragement. You're both two good reasons to stay in DeafRead.
Karen M-- Thanks, a "bridge" is a perfect metaphore. I thought about the fact that many diplomats, peace-makers, and mediators make a purposeful choice NOT to choose sides. Not choosing can be a decision.
K.L.-- Thanks for the compliment! I have wondered the same thing about "anonymous" comments. Why doesn't "anonymous" ever have anything nice to say?? HAHA! Why should anyone take his/her words seriously? For all I know he/she might not even be deaf. He/she could be sitting in jail somewhere. He/she might be a schizophrenic in a mental institution. He/she could be a 12-year-old. . .I can think of a hundred good reasons not to pay attention.
I've chosen not to moderate comments like this anymore, because it's a good reminder to others there are weirdos out there surfing the net at all hours.
Brown-eyed girl--
Yes-- I know many, many good people like you on the fence. :-)
DT-- Thanks-- yes, there are different meanings to being on the fence. One meaning is "can't choose", the other is "won't choose. Big difference.
Dyniece-- Thanks for the kind words. I always enjoy reading what you have to say. Your well-balanced, logical arguments are refreshing.
SG-- You are one person I greatly admire. Instead of complaining, you do something to make the world a better place. This is what was meant in that article I mentioned about living "authentically." You're true to yourself. You speak your mind, but not in such a way that hurts others. You make decisions, but you think things through. That's why so many people love you. ;-)
Thank you for taking the time to respond in my blog, but wow, a whole blog post? A bit much ;) I just wanted to say one thing and that is, when I said "please don't make me choose", yes, I do sound weak, and unable, but please look at it from my perspective. We're told at a very young age that making choices is a must and that being wishy-washy makes you vulnerable. Now, flash to the now, where World War 3 has opened up and I feel like I'm forced to choose between the two cultures that seem to ALWAYS be at odds: hearing and deaf. I don't know which one I am. I'm neither and both at the same time. I want desparatly to fit in, but I don't. I want to be fully deaf so i can't be hearing so I am not on the fence. I know that can't happen. The reverse is also true. I feel choosing a side is abandoning the other, and I can't do that either, but many strong deaf that I talk to say be in this community or leave for good, you're wasting up space. How does that make someone like me feel? I'm made to feel like my experience doesn't matter, the born deaf from deaf parents of generations of deaf only matter, that's who. So, it's not just one thing that is bothering me, it's a multitude of things, and I don't ever know if I'll find my answer. All I can do right now is just be me.
Hey Kim,
You have any room on that fence for me?
I am not sure how I feel about that policy, but I do respect that fact that DeafVillage wants everyone to enjoy all vlogs.
Geo's Vlogs are fantastic. I watch it many times just to practice my ASL. It's clear and easy to understand. I am getting to the point now were I can watch some without reading the subtitles. But I respect him putting subtitles.
So Kim enjoy the view from the fence many of us are sitting right next to you.
Dena-- You aren't wishy-washy. You're philosophical. We're caught in the yin-yang of deafness. Your deaf journey is as important as anyone else's. It's up to you to make it purposeful. Listen to your inner self. That's where your answers are.
Hi Valerie, As I said-- it's a BIG fence. And it's looking good today. I'm satisfied.
I agree SG is awesome! I'm getting better and better at ASL all the time due to the patience and understanding of certain Deaf people who take the time to help me learn more about deafness and ASL. I'm so indebted to them. Some of them don't even know who they are. I hope they feel the good thoughts I send their way all the time. :-)
Kim -- moving over to allow space for Dena and Valerie.
See?
The girls are flirting with you, SG!
White Ghost
Awww... *blushing* you made me blush!! Love you all!!
Hugs!!!
-SG
I want to sit on the fence with you good people. I like the view, am not sure where I fit in, and the company is amazing.
In a lot of ways I believe that "fence sitters" offer the best perspective of both worlds than those who sits on either side of the fence. It's a unique position to be in that's more common than not. Much more common than those who are not in the middle but to the side such as those raised as culturally Deaf.
Kim,
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I share SeekGeo's opinion about the DV's requirement. Like I said in my comments on other blogs, it's all so one sided, and contradicts the term inclusive for all.
You feel caught in two worlds. I can get that. You are confident in English because that is your FIRST language, and one that you grew up with. You're still learning ASL.
I can understand your bewilderment with the angry reactions. Like I said, there is too much history for the Deaf to take guideline #5 docilely. It has to do with language supremacy, which I've experienced as a child and seen so much as a Deaf teen and adult in relation to that issue. You and others like Dena are caught in the crossfire.
I see what one blogger meant about you, Kim, Compassion, too, beats in my heart for your and Dena's perspectives.
You're right: I can never fully understand where you are coming from. You can also say you can never understand where I am coming from as I've chosen to own ASL as my mother tongue, and thereby my Deaf identity. It's a long story, dear.
I do invite you to read my blog on growing up in a Hearing family at Shel: A Deaf Canadian's Thoughts. This is in response to Open Minded Deaf Observer's negative perspective of life in a Hearing family and life in general. He's entitled to his perspective, and so am I entitled to mine. (So are you to yours! :-))
There are some things you might not understand, but do please feel free to ask me.
If you are willing, would you mind describing in depth that experience as a child in school and outside of school? I'd love to hear about it... "hear"... talk about puns!
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